S1 E1: With... Rowan Coleman

In this first episode, Sam and Sassy introduce themselves and the podcast, before chatting to author Rowan Coleman.

Rowan writes Bronte novels under pen name Bella Ellis, and joins the podcast to discuss all thing books, babes and beaches.

Transcript

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Sassy 0:00
Hi. 

Sam 0:01
Hello. 

Sassy 0:02
It's our first podcast episode. So if everyone listening at home. Welcome. 

Sam 0:07
Yeah, we're currently sat in the library. at the Bronte parsonage.

Sassy 0:10
And  this is where we record every episode. It is. 

Sam 0:13
Indeed. 

Sassy 0:13
our podcast is behind the glass we're giving you an exclusive access to our collection. Each guest is going to be bringing new one day object to life each week. And we're going to bring that to you. we're really excited for the series ahead. We've got loads of amazing guests lined up. 

Sam 0:29
It's going to be amazing. And I think it's great that we're able to chat with them whilst we're here in the parsonage, surrounded by all these books, by massive Bronte fans as well as all the objects. 

Sassy 0:40
So thank you so much for joining us for our first episode of the Behind the Glass Opportunity Podcast. We can't wait to have you here. 

Sam 0:48
Who knows what's going to be uncovered over the next few episodes? 

Sassy 0:52
You better keep your ears open and eBay that subscribe and like button because we're going to be coming to you over the next two months with this fantastic podcast. Whether you're a Bronte fan or not. 

Sam 1:05
You will be by the end. 

Sassy 1:06
Exactly. Exactly. So, yeah, Enjoy our first episode. And away we go. 

I thought how it smelt really wild when I came in this morning. 

Sam 1:20
It does. It smells very sheepy. 

Sassy 1:23
Yeah, it. Does. 

Sam 1:24
There's something very creepy, but as nice, it kind of always makes me feel like I'm time travelling when it's like that. I mean, where I'm from is in the countryside, but there's not much sleep, so that's. 

Sassy 1:33
A nice way to think of it. Time traveling back. If I ever smell something horrible. Yeah, just go to the Brontes. 

Sam 1:40
Probably smell this too. Yeah, true. It's like bonfire night. I always find, like, that smell of bonfires and it just makes me think. I mean, it probably isn't what they were smelling, but I'm always like, Oh. Me and Guy Fawkes are best buds now. We're connected three times. 

Sassy 1:56
Yeah, I did get that. It was. I feel like the seasons smell a bit different. Yeah. You don't feel like, Well, I love Autumn. And when it goes to autumn, you can almost smell that chill in the air. And you can. I don't know. It's smells. Halloween is like punk. Any like. Yeah. The hot chocolate. Our house has got its own distinctive smell. 

Sam 2:16
It certainly does today. 

Sassy 2:17
Yeah. 

Sam 2:18
But it's beautiful day. 

Sassy 2:19
It's a beautiful day. Very. UN, Bronte, I guess. But I was doing some reading, and there was a project run by an artist called Rebecca Chesney in 2011. She tracked the weather in the Brontes novels and their lives, and she did lots of research into what every time they mentioned a type of weather and actually, surprisingly, the majority of weather, this noted in their novels and poetry, is all sunshine and and really lovely weather. So I think people assume that it's like billowing and quiet. 

Sam 2:52
Wuthering. 

Sassy 2:52
Yeah, Wuthering. And like quite horrible weather. Yeah, but on average, I think sunshine and not beautiful weather like today is mentioned quite a lot. 

Sam 3:03
Yeah. 

Sassy 3:04
You wouldn't expect it. 

Sam 3:05
You wouldn't. And a lot of that poetry and they talk a lot about you know, nice summer days and you know being able or longing for those summer days. So it wasn't all do. 

Sassy 3:15
I know I was actually about to say the exact same way. Yeah. It wasn't all doom and gloom. It can be nice and how it can do anyway. Hi everyone. Welcome to Behind the Glass, a Parsonage podcast. This is the podcast where we get up close and personal with an object in our fascinating museum collection, from writing desks to sofas, pianos to spoons, we welcome a new guest each week to bring a Bronte object to life through conversation and creative writing. We're your host, sassy and sound from the Bronte Parsonage Museum. We're here to chat all things books, babes in Bronte with new contemporary artists from across the UK. 

Oh. 

Sam 4:04
So sassy. What Bronte are you feeling like today? 

Sassy 4:07
Um, I actually think. I think Tabby in classes. A Bronte, even. I definitely wasn't. I'm feeling a bit like Tabby because I'm really into baking at the minute. 

Sam 4:17
Yeah, I'm baking. 

Sassy 4:19
Um, I did a really good vegan banana bread the other day. Every time I bake, I have to think about the rise of the cake, and there's a company called ARGs not sponsored by them, but shout out and they do this cracked egg substitute. Anyway, I used that in the carrot cake I made. I did a banana bread and then I did this carrot cake and it rose amazingly, I was Sometimes it like being cakes can be a bit dense, I think. But yeah, it was the like nice fluffy cake I've had in ages. I was really proud of that. 

Sam 4:47
Oh, you're going to have shows. Picture of that. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, actually bring it in so we can eat it. Yeah. 

Sassy 4:53
Anyone at home? You should use the cracked eggs or stuff if you're vegan because it makes the fluffiest cakes. Is really good. I made some flapjack as well. 

Sam 5:00
I'm sure Tubby would have been making those as well. I think it must have been flapjack. Most of it around. 

Sassy 5:05
Parking was around long and wasn't it? Which is I think. Yeah. Different. 

Sam 5:09
Those different. Yeah. 

Sassy 5:10
Surely flapjack was around. 

Sam 5:12
Most of it. 

Sassy 5:12
Is pretty easy. It's just oats and butter and sugar and. 

Sam 5:15
They had all. 

Sassy 5:16
Those and they have, they had porridge. I wrote about porridge all the time didn't they. Are you going to be really proud? Which Bronte are you feeling Last time. 

Sam 5:22
I'm going to go with Emily today. Just because it's very sunny and it's just making me want to be outside. 

Sassy 5:28
Yeah, I think Emily would have really thrived in this weather. Just like probably at the crack of dawn. I can see I got out onto the moors and stay out all day, and I'm going back, like, as probably as soon as it's dark. Yeah, Just kind of says maybe riding all day on the moors. We did a little stuff. Trip to the top within the day. Didn't weigh. It was really. 

Sam 5:47
Nice. It was. It was so nice that we had such good weather for it. And I got a bit somewhat upset. 

Sassy 5:54
So as soon as it's sunny, it's like 20 minutes in the sun. And I'm like, Oh my God, yeah, need to lather up. 

Sam 5:59
But that was your first time going to top weather? It was. 

Sassy 6:01
Yeah. I've gone to the Bronte waterfall before and I went with a group of mates, but there was like 20 of us. So we had planned to go to Top Women's, but we just didn't have enough time. Everyone was meandering, but we had a large group and we managed to get to sort within in such a good amount tide. Yeah, and we all had our little packed lunches up on the top then. Yeah, it was really sweet and the. 

Sam 6:22
Views are just incredible up. 

Sassy 6:24
There. It just feels you're like, Wow, this is Wuthering Heights. Rye Head. Yeah. Anyway, some who are we got on the podcast today? 

Sam 6:30
Well, for this episode of the podcast, we're welcoming Rowan Colman. Ooh. Rowan Colman is the bestselling and award winning author of 16 novels, including the Memory book The Summer of Impossible Things and The Girl at the Window. A lifelong Bronte fan, Rowan also writes the Bronte mysteries under the Bronte inspired pen name. Bella Alice is a carefully researched series of novels that reimagined the Brontes as amateur detectives. 

Sassy 6:57
Very cool. We saw these books in the shop as well, and they would do very good. So really looking forward to having Rowan on heart, finding. 

Sam 7:09
Hi, Rowan. Thank you for coming today. 

Sassy 7:11
Thanks for coming and joining us today. The first question that we ask all our guests is what Bronte feeling like today? 

Rowan 7:18
Oh, my God. 

Sam 7:20
No pressure. I know. 

Rowan 7:23
Well, I've just come from Scarboro. Yeah, I suppose it's feeling very Anneish. Okay. I left school. Yeah, but now I'm here in Levittown. I'm probably verging on a bit of Charlotte. 

Sam 7:35
Yeah, y. 

Rowan 7:36
Yeah, I think. I don't know. I think she's so present here in the past. 

Sam 7:41
And I think because as well, there are brooms here, like you've got Charlotte's bed and obviously most of the objects are what belong to Charlotte. So I think she's very present here in terms of her character. 

Sassy 7:52
And would you like to introduce yourself, our listeners at home? 

Rowan 7:55
Yes, I would. I'm Rowan Colman. I am a novelist. I've been a internationally published author for 21 years, and even though I do not look old enough, which my companions will attest to, and 

I also write under the name of Bella Ellis, a series of novels called The Bronte Mysteries that imagine that before they were famous authors, the Bronte sisters were amateur detectives. 

Sassy 8:20
Yes, they. 

Sam 8:21
Are brilliant, but. 

Sassy 8:21
They are British, and we sell them in the shop. With me. Discussing beforehand is really brilliant. When kind of new adaptations of Bronte things come into light because it just introduces a completely new audience to them. People they love, detectives and that sort of true crime genre meeting the Brontes is just people's dreams really. 

Sam 8:40
Yeah. 

Rowan 8:41
It's given me an enormous amount of joy over the last five years. I have to say, I absolutely love writing them. 

Sassy 8:47
I know your love for the Brontes. Is it quite difficult to write about something that you love? Does it ever like, make you not love them? Oh God. 

Rowan 8:53
No. The danger is a sort of weight of responsibility in Charlotte's eyes. 

Sam 8:59
Watching you thinking. 

Rowan 9:02
You know what people are going to think of you taking these three iconic women on these adventures. Really? And that's. But that was the goal of the whole goal of the series, was to just kind of explore the personalities, inspirations of these women in a setting that we are not accustomed to. Yeah, and that happens to be quite gothic, occasionally supernatural, but very exciting adventures as they solve mysteries and save the day. 

Sam 9:27
Are you able to something that I always find really interesting. Are you able to visualise the characters like when you do your research on them? And obviously we have very limited amount of images of what they look like, but when you write about them, are you able to see them in your mind's eye? 

Rowan 9:44
Yeah, 100%. Yes I do. And I sort of feel that I actually I, they kind of, they're kind of alive. The fleshed out more realistic versions of front of portrayed. Yeah. 

And I find that to be, you know just the main my main inspiration for their characteristics because it's just one of the few that we've got that we know with though. Sorry Branwell, not perhaps the best technically, if he didn't know them intimately. 

Sassy 10:15
Yeah, definitely. We asked you whether you what Bronte you were feeling like today. What? Bronte Do you feel like when you were writing. 

Sam 10:22
A. 

Rowan 10:25
I think I'm, I think kind of like I inclined towards Charlotte a lot because she's so iconic as an author that you just her experience of being an author is very much the universal experience of being an author. The anxiety, the dread, the the dashed off letters to the editor just saying, please. 

Sam 10:43
God, just tell me you hate it. Now. 

Rowan 10:45
The the disappointment, the resilience, the kind of coming back from huge setbacks. And nobody did that like Charlotte. And so whenever I'm feeling that, you know, a bit kind of down in the dumps or a bit like I don't want to get to my desk, I always think of Charlotte because on the worst kind of writing day of her life, she just to write Jane Eyre And frankly, if you can do that, you can do anything. 

Sam 11:08
Yeah, absolutely. 

Sassy 11:10
That's actually so true. That's for any creatives out there listening. If you have a feeling down to think of Charlotte Bronte. Yeah, yeah. Because she can do that. 

Rowan 11:17
What would Charlotte Bronte do. That's my slogan. 

Sassy 11:18
We need wristbands or something like that. 

Sam 11:21
You do? Yeah. What we try. 

Rowan 11:23
To write for each. 

Sam 11:26
Yeah. 

Sassy 11:26
The t shirts, everything. 

Sam 11:34
So in front of us, we have your chosen object. Yeah. So we're not going to reveal what it is just yet. But me and Sassy, we're going to describe for the listeners exactly what it looks like, what it feels like, and the colours so sassy. Do you want to begin with that? 

Sassy 11:50
Yeah, sure. So I'll start off with Shiny. 

Sam 11:53
They're quite colourful. 

Sassy 11:54
Yeah, they are grainy. 

Sam 11:57
There's quite a lot of them. 

I'll go for. 

Sassy 12:02
I'll riff off the colours, I'll go for like orange, red, brown blacks in there as well. 

Sam 12:07
Grey like 90% of the objects in this museum always have brown brownish. 

It makes me think of going on a holiday. 

Sassy 12:17
Yes, that's a big clue. Yeah. Summer. 

Sam 12:19
Summer. 

Sassy 12:20
See. 

Sam 12:21
I think we're getting close. Rowan, would you like to reveal what the object is? A you? 

Rowan 12:26
I chose Ann's collection of rocks, which is, I think, mostly made up of Carnelian and Obsidian and a few other things as well. 

Sassy 12:36
A lovely object to be chosen today. Can you tell us what drew us to it? Well, why did you pick it? 

Rowan 12:41
I think it's one of the things when I first saw it in the exhibition, you're just immediately touched by the intimacy of it, intention of it. And it really gives you an insight. We talk about, I'm sure in the last couple of years, some of the research has been done into the Stones. Even before that research you looked at and you and you had an insight into Ann's character and the things interested her and the thing that made her happy. And I could picture her on a beach searching out red coloured stones. 

Sassy 13:09
Yeah. I mean, I'm the sort of person that would go looking for shells and pebbles and collect them and take a little memento home. And I think it shows an insight into that sort of relic like collecting behaviour that she might have had and also her appreciation for kind of science in geology. 

Rowan 13:25
When I began writing Bronte Mysteries, I hadn't done the, the brilliant research that a group of geologists did on the Unearthed stones, I think it was in 2020. I just thought I'd like to collect pebbles. And she like that. And I wish I'd known that when I wrote them on this. Right. But later the study, it was done. It was published in Bronte studies as well, I think, and told us the answer Stones with really careful intention. And they're pretty difficult. They're not impossible to find on the coast of Scarborough, but they're quite difficult to assemble this many would take a lot of time and patience. And also there's some other stones that are not indigenous to Yorkshire or indeed the UK, which don't. We don't know how she picked them up, but we do know that she had a very definite intention when she collected these stones. And it's always fascinating to me, to you kind of Mullen that she was interested in geology. She wrote about it in ten of 12 

and of course she was in Scarborough, my home town, quite a lot. And there was that already, t Rotunda Museum, which was not called the Rotunda Museum at that time, but which was already dedicated to geology of the area. And we know Branwell went there. So it makes a sense that and of course would go them perhaps take her people as Yeah. And she would just have developed an interest in this emerging science. It's such an interesting time to kind of anchor the science of geology into history pieces, really beginning to challenge the kind of Christian view of creation. Yes, a hint at how the world is much older than it is. Well, so much older than, you know, religion would have it be. And I was interested in as science alongside her faith, I think it's really fascinating. 

Sam 15:13
Do you think it was an element of having a keepsake that was almost the equivalent of us having photographs of going away to a place or buying mementos so that she could bring a part of Scarboro back home with her? 

Rowan 15:26
I definitely think that's part I think that's more she probably collected herself. So that's very kind of that moment of to yourself and the sea by the shore. Collecting stones is really something that makes a lasting impression on you. And we know that, you know, she was I was kind of stylish. 

Sam 15:44
Yeah. 

Rowan 15:46
And she loved I'm wearing today my string of Carnelian beings. 

Sam 15:50
I was going to say, Yeah, I thought so. 

Rowan 15:53
That on our echo string that we know the and and wall and also her beautiful, beautiful, shallow turquoise lariat necklace which is. I just adore that. I love it so much if I've ever been tempted to, you know, try and rock something from the parsonage it would be that So she but she had nice colour. I think she had it. And obviously the red beads, Carnelian really spoke to her in a way which I find incredibly interesting, and I just want to know why. 

Sam 16:24
Yeah. 

Sassy 16:25
There should be some sort of like jewellery range that is like because wouldn't that be really cool to demand this? Yeah. 

Rowan 16:31
Really, I'll. 

Sam 16:31
Get on it. 

Sassy 16:32
But this is a home. By the time you hear this, you know, we arrange out that. Don't worry. I think this is a good point for us. To the full truth in a line. 

I've got some facts up my sleeve, and you guys have got to decide which one is true and actually wherein you have kind of stumped me that because you've already taken some of my truth. 

Sam 16:56
But you know what? 

Sassy 16:59
That's how you find it. And, Sam, I think you're going to have a harder time. Okay. That's a rare. And if you do, you know, hold, hold your tongue. But I was going for the types of rocks in the collection. 

Sam 17:10
Okay. 

Sassy 17:11
But it's okay. We haven't mentioned them all. I've got five types of rocks in the collection, and you've got to guess which one isn't part of Anne's collection. So we've got Carnelian, we've got Quartz, we've got our guides of Flow, Stone and Obsidian. So those are the five ruins looking very, very. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I feel. 

Rowan 17:30
I feel like I know. Okay. Obviously there's still a huge potential for me to be wrong. 

Sassy 17:34
Okay. Okay. Because maybe you've forgotten what Roman said. 5 minutes ago. 

Sam 17:40
It's the one that isn't in the collection. 

Sassy 17:41
Yeah, Which one isn't in her pebble collection? 

Sam 17:44
I don't think you mentioned our guides yet. So I'm going to say I. 

Sassy 17:49
Think it's Roman. 

Rowan 17:51
I think it's quartz. 

Sam 17:52
Rowan. Correct, here we go. 

Sassy 17:56
Yes, it is quartz that's not in there. But yes, I had Canadians. I got Flow Stone and Obsidian. And to have that kind of variety is really impressive. I mean, if I was to go on a beach, I'm not sure I could just pick up Obsidian from the sand. 

Rowan 18:11
Definitely, because I know I. 

Sam 18:15
You can imagine. All right, You're. 

Sassy 18:16
On the beach, like, come on and wherever you like. And they're such a beautiful collection of stones. Anyone would be proud to have those. I feel like it. A little like five year old me on the beach. If I have families, I would have been so happy. Some of them remind me of you and see if I see glass. Yeah, Yeah. I used to love seagulls when it's like a road and it looks so like precious gems. And that's what this collection really speaks. I think it feels precious. 

Rowan 18:41
It's possible that and Charlotte brought her some of the, I think the fly stone perhaps from Cumbria. But there were also shops in Scarborough that sold, polished and more exotic stones. And I sometimes think maybe that's where she got her lariat necklace from. Yeah, I think no seashells are from the Pacific. South Pacific. She could have very well picked up the polished obsidian. 

Sassy 19:05
Yeah, I think the research that's been done recently about these stones is really interesting. It's amazing how in doubt. Yeah. The I was reading something about how they've tracked the tides of the moon. If she was going around about 5:45 a.m., which is when she would have had a bit of time before her duties as a governess started. And there's only maybe nine times in the span of the three months where she could have been out on the beach because of the tides. 

Sam 19:30
And now amazing. You got to love Bronte for doing like Bronte fans, for doing the research. They go full. 

Rowan 19:37
Length that we won't go. 

Sam 19:38
To. No, no absolutely Yeah. Think will. 

Rowan 19:42
Soon find. 

Sam 19:42
Out Yeah and what. 

Sassy 19:45
Else do you like about this subject? 

Rowan 19:47
Um, it's just. I mean that these stones are something she discovered, and I think she protect it. Something she intended to be seen. And I think that's one of the things I like about it, is it's a collection that was intended to be displayed. 

Sassy 20:04
Yeah. 

Rowan 20:04
And here it is on display 200 years later. And I think that would have pleased her enormously. I think she'd be enormously pleased by the research that's been done into the collection as well. And I just think it was a lovely legacy for her. It's it's not the whole of her legacy by any means. She she, she left with two wonderful novels and a kind of force of personality that stays with us. But this is something that she cared about and it's on display in the museum and we can all come and have a look at it. And I think that's a really nice tribute to her interest. 

Sassy 20:38
Yeah, definitely. Do you feel an affinity with on living in Scarborough? 

Rowan 20:42
Yeah, I do. I am a super fan. I was a super fan before I started writing Bronte Mysteries. I've been a fan of the Bronte sisters since I was a little girl. I think, like most people, they get you young. Yeah. And then that's it. You're really. Yeah, that's my life. When we moved to Scarborough, I just was so pleased to be able to come and just write from there. 

Sam 21:03
And I go every couple of weeks and. 

Rowan 21:06
And we have a chat and I do most of the talking to people. 

Sam 21:12
But. 

Rowan 21:12
I really enjoy about and I know this kind of is kind of a discussion about whether or not and should be away from her family in Scarborough But first I don't think Ann is there and in spirit anyway. And secondly, the wonderful thing I think that she would be amazed at as a dip at the foot of her grave and you know, grass grows there. And that's because people come to visit her and they've done that, you know, to her going on for 200 years. And it's really touching little geographical, you know, to see how many people have recognised her as a individual and not just the youngest one. 

Sassy 21:50
Yeah. 

Sam 21:52
Could you give because I've never I've never been to Ann's grave and I really want to go, but could you give us a snapshot of how it feels in that area or what you see around you when you're at that grave? Because can you see the sea from where she is? 

Rowan 22:04
Yeah, you can. So she's there's the St Mary's Church, which is a beautiful church. It's the second, I think the second or third St Mary's. It's been there the ruins of the one that was bombed in, in the Civil War. I know that sounds incongruous. And it was Cannon fired at. That's not probably the technical term. And so the ruins are still that as a narrow little alleyway and on the other side of that is where Ann's grave is. Half of that is still a graveyard and half of it. And rather, unfortunately, now a car park. 

Sam 22:37
However. 

Rowan 22:39
It's a beautiful spot. Let's see from from the bench next to Ann's grave, you can see all of South Bay. North Bay is behind you. On the left hand side is the castle on top of the hill to right is St Mary's Church, and it's usually extremely peaceful and quiet. There's a breeze. The sea will be sparkling. It's a lovely, peaceful spot and headstone has been eroded by lots of salty, windy weather. Yeah. Which is kind of sad, but it did have the the other more accurate Bronte society stone there in the nineties I think but the lovely thing is is as well as this sort of dip in in the ground at the foot of her grave. There are flowers, there are pen pens. 

Sassy 23:26
Yeah. 

Rowan 23:27
There are seashells, there are stones. 

Sassy 23:31
Yeah. 

Rowan 23:31
An just people bringing tributes to her. And in a couple of weeks I'm just waiting for my Emily Bronte rosebush to bloom. Oh, and in a couple of weeks, I'll take the first Emily Bronte rose and put it on her grave. And, yeah, I. If you had any doubts about what sort of a nerdy superfan I like, I probably just cleared that up. 

Sassy 23:52
Do you do any pebble collecting? 

Rowan 23:54
I do. And in fact, I have five children, three of still pebble collecting eight Oh, and we a collect a lot. Only yesterday, in fact, we have a pebble collecting. But I did do deliberate pebble collecting for this. 

Sam 24:09
Oh yay for this podcast. Oh my. 

Rowan 24:11
Gosh. I told you the Bronte father failed. So there are three sites around Scarborough where I may have got her. Her Carnelian from and is actually called Cullinan in Bay, but quite hard to get to, but might be the inspiration behind the scene and of Oddfellows. 

Sassy 24:32
Yeah. 

Rowan 24:33
There's Kate and Bay also pretty difficult to get to back in the day and then of course South Bay which was right outside the lodgings where she stayed. So I waited for low tide and off I went to South Bay. I started where the door of the guest house was and off I went to search for Connie. And you know, it was lovely. 

Sam 24:57
Oh, that's really nice. Yeah. 

Rowan 25:00
It was. I did. I did fall into rock pool. It just made me think because I was there in my waterproof boots, you know, jeans. Yeah. That did make me think of Ann in her skirts and her. Her leather. Her leather boots, probably. Yeah. She probably wouldn't have had a patent on a bonnet. On my bonnet, of course. 

Sam 25:18
Yeah. 

Rowan 25:19
I just clambered over this. Rocks. I mean, obviously, I have the great privilege of being 20 years older than Ann. Once when she died and fell in a rock pool at one point. But I'd hit the motherlode because I saw this beautiful red glowing pebble under the water rock pool. And I reached out and discovered it was quite crescent. And to me, 

so very lightly stung me. No, no, no. 

Sam 25:42
But it was. 

Rowan 25:43
Mine and it was mad. It was just like. 

Sam 25:44
A no, thank you. Yeah. 

Rowan 25:46
I say. 

Sassy 25:46
Sorry. Sorry. 

Sam 25:48
Oh, yeah. 

Rowan 25:49
I met some dogs. Yeah. Who I threw balls for and just. 

Sam 25:54
Generally had a lovely time. Excuse me. 

Sassy 25:56
Did you feel like Anne was with you? 

Rowan 25:58
Well, you asked me to make a piece. Yes. Well, the podcast, which I have done, and so I'm not going to think more about, but I do have I know this is a podcast nobody. 

Sassy 26:09
Can take photos like this. Listeners can see I can. 

Rowan 26:13
These are my stones. I said, Wow. And which I just put next. 

Sam 26:18
To V. 

Rowan 26:19
And Stones. Now those two very gorgeous, glamorous, shiny red Canadians in this collection I went to the shop to buy. 

Sam 26:27
Yeah, I might have done that, which I. 

Rowan 26:31
Might have done because I yeah, my, my efforts were perhaps I mean, I did it once for an hour. 

Sam 26:37
Yeah. 

Rowan 26:38
And I wasn't that lucky. 

Sam 26:40
But I have really. 

Sassy 26:41
Lovely and I think issues like the variation in size, the colour variation is there, all those kind of like browns and reds and grays and like even oranges and that it's beautiful. 

Sam 26:52
And it's a very similar set and it's so close. 

Rowan 26:56
It's pretty close on. It's showed me that her collection because I thought about this and I just thought, oh well probably all the Canadians go now. 

Sam 27:05
Yeah, and got it all. 

Rowan 27:07
But then I thought that's madness because what's 200 years and and geography times the blink of an eye. It yeah it must be there but I think it shows probably her patience and her intention. It wasn't just that she went and scooped up 20 stones. Yeah. On a Wednesday morning. Yeah. It shows that so much of our art and really shows us her patience. It shows her attraction to a particular colour and it shows us her interest in science and geology and it just kind of shows her to be a very kind of 

cosmopolitan person with many interests. 

Sassy 27:45
Did you hear the clock go off then? 

Sam 27:48
I could just hear. About in the background that the moment by. 

Sassy 27:52
The clock always seems to go off at certain times when we're speaking about one of the Broncos and just then you were like talking about her soul with the clock going off. Oh, these are really lovely. Thank you so much for bringing those and that really nice talking about your children. Do you talk to them about the Brontes and. 

Sam 28:08
Do they not say yes? Yes, they. 

Rowan 28:11
They are surprisingly interested actually, considering Mother is obsessed. 

Sam 28:16
Yeah. 

Rowan 28:16
And they yes, I've brought them. I mean they know they will come with me to visit. I know. I suppose if their interest is going to grow with them, you know, and kind of leaving them to it, I yeah. My writing room is full of Bronte paraphernalia and I have 127 copies of Jane, and that's a hell. 

Sam 28:36
My goodness. I've seen some of it on social. 

Rowan 28:41
And and several copies of all the other novels as well. 

Sassy 28:44
Do you have a favourite copy if you've got that many, is that one that you like? That is the best one. 

Rowan 28:48
Oh there's some really beautiful ones. The one that I long for, which I think you've got in here. 

Sam 28:53
Which you'll. 

Rowan 28:55
Use around the. 

Sam 28:55
Life. 

Rowan 28:57
Is the one with the poppies on the spine, which is so rare. It's like hen's teeth. 

Sam 29:02
I look for. 

Rowan 29:03
That all the time. I mean the older ones, I suppose. I can't afford obviously a first edition or second edition, but I have got a third edition. Nice skin. And I know the thing that I love about these books that I collect that endlessly fascinates me actually, is the dedications and the names and the sort of little details of social history that are in the fly pages of these novels. Yeah. And the people that have over two centuries read and loved and cherished these books, there are traces of them. And sometimes you can, in fact discover them and photograph them or see where they live is almost like a family tree. 

Sassy 29:39
Family tree? Yeah. That's what. 

Rowan 29:40
I history. And if I didn't have direct descendants or this doesn't have direct descendants, but they do have descendants in their readers and is that they've inspired a lot. That tree is there to be seen. And I love to kind of put that together. 

Sassy 29:54
Yeah, we were saying the other day and there should be some research done into the family tree of the dogs because, you know, Flossie had a baby and they gave that to Ellen Thusi I'm sure there is a dog descendants out there. 

Rowan 30:09
Could you imagine if you could trace back the flossy descendants? Yeah. 

Sassy 30:12
And then we've got Bronte dogs out there. That there must be would be so cool. 

Rowan 30:17
I would love that dog. 

Sassy 30:18
And yeah, I know you'd. 

Sam 30:19
Say be like my dog now, but it would be really cool. 

Sassy 30:24
But I love the idea of actually the family tree and their legacy is through all the people that read them and listen to their work and all the adaptations that they come and just all of that. That's really nice. The artists that are inspired by them. I think that legacy is almost just as important as a bloodline. 

Rowan 30:42
I think it is, and it may be. It's more important maybe. Yeah, actually that's what means that we're all still talking about them, thinking about them, reading them today, and that power of lives and works of fiction to prevail for such a long time is right. 

Sam 30:59
Yeah. You know. 

Rowan 31:00
I don't imagine, sadly, that in a couple of centuries there'll be some people talking about me on a podcast. 

Sam 31:07
You never you never know. 

Rowan 31:08
You never know, guys. But I know I'm pinning their hopes to it and. 

Sam 31:12
They'll be thinking about this. Yeah. This is going to be a really. 

Is interesting how it can you can be linked to them throughout so many years. And I remember reading about Daphne du Marais and how excited to be even in old age. The one thing that apparently made her light up was when someone would talk to her about the Brontes. And it's one of those things that four generations back you can go, Oh my great grandfather probably read a Bronte book. You know, it's kind of all of these things and it does link you all when it's something that's, you know, 200 years. 

Rowan 31:45
It's fascinating and something that I one day want to write something non-fiction about, but I can't quite work out how to do it yet. By one example, it's that postcard of the parsonage that I picked up from 1960s and trace. The address it was sent to was a woman and her single mother and her son and her son went on to be really quite famous artist in the style of Lowery. Obviously I forgot his name and he, you know, lived with his mother his whole life. Yeah. And this is just a slightly to a ribbon of connection to back to me. 

Sam 32:21
That's really beautiful. Yes. 

Sassy 32:23
Well, one other ribbon of connection we can add to that now is you and your creative response is a 

this is kind of our favorite part of the pod. Each week, we invite our guests to respond to the object that they've chosen through some artistic form. So this is kind of your 5 minutes. We'll give you going. You get your time to read how I'm. 

Rowan 32:51
Going to be a klaxon. 

Sassy 32:54
no klaxon It's fine. We can go over. We can go over. You go 5 minutes now and you shall dedicate it to time to read this out. And also tell us a bit about yourself as an artist. What inspired you to write this? Also, if there's anything you want to plug right, it is your blogging moment. And so yeah, over to you. 

Rowan 33:13
Well, so I this I've written a little piece for you and it's really comes directly from my creative practice, which is to get involved as deeply as I can in the landscapes and experiences of the people that I'm writing about. When it comes to writing about the Bronte sisters in the Bronte Mystery series available now in bookshops, I 

obviously, you know, I'm dealing with real people and there's a way of responsibility and trying to immerse yourself as much as possible into that world of objects and experiences and fact know facts on the record and not to play around with that too much. When I'm writing fiction though, it's I have the same approach and always want to be in the landscapes of the characters. I'm I'm currently writing about a spitfire pilot and I really want to fly in a spitfire, but it costs £3,000. So if there's anyone in this thing here who wants to give me a free spitfire, I'm really down for that. Anyway, so I did what I told you I went to. I wanted to find out more about and an essential question that people ask when they think about these stones. And I, I can refer to that because I took my stones to a geological site and put them up there and said, I need these carnelian lol. And they all said no. And I talked about and a bit and I was and they answered the question that came back to me more than once was, Well, why did you light red stone so this is my little piece I have written about my experience of looking for chameleons with Amber, and we meet under the blue plaque that bears your name. You are tying the ribbon of your bonnet under your chin as you step out of the door of a guest house that isn't there anymore. Within a few silent steps, we can see the sweep of South Bay, its rocky outcrops revealed by low tide. Your pace quickens as we cross the elegant, arching footbridge that spans the deep valley below. You are impatient to begin. Why, Carnelian? I ask you that vibrancy, you tell me, hurrying on the flare of reds burning bright amongst the gentle greens and blues. They shine like the sparks of creation. The path turns downward Narrow trees bend towards us Whispering secrets Birds sing. We hear the Russian withdraw of the waves and you pause a moment lifting your face to the kiss of the sky. 

Why do you. 

Sam 35:51
Care? 

Rowan 35:51
You ask. It's stupid, I confess. Awkward. I'm here now, so you may as well explain. You cross your arms. I miss you, I say. Which I know is art. No, I understand your reply. I too have missed people I have never known. When we reached the sand, it's wet and firm underfoot glazed with the imprint of the shining sky. You pull loose the bow under your chin and let your bonnet fly away on the breeze That carries it up and up and tosses it out to sea. Lifting your skirts, you run racing full throttle. Pause. I watch you for a moment. Conscious of the dog walkers and surfers, you might wonder why a grown woman is wandering alone on the beach. And then I jog off to you. It's the least I can do to follow in your wake. Look slowly. Take great care. You direct my gaze downwards. Sand is studded with gleaming jewels. Everything looks precious, glistening under the muted sun. Carnelian comes in a variety of colors from pale amber to rich red. The coloration is caused by iron impurities in a crystal formation. You explain, it will shine even when it's dry. And if you hold it up to the light, you'll notice its translucency. I might just pick up anything reddish, I tell her, and hope for the best. That's not very discerning, but I suppose you are beginning. Your smile is patient. At least you are. And enthusiastic people. We inched along the hands the shoreline as we go. I accumulate chips of sandstone, maybe some Jasper slipping them into my pocket with satisfaction. Everything else in the world washes out the thoughts calm and subside. Still, no Canadian. Perhaps they've all been taken away, I suggest. And there are no more left to be found. Well, perhaps everything rather is worth your patience. You tell me as I keep searching. I want you out of the corner of my eye. You fling your arms wide, embracing the sky. What do you see when you look at the horizon I ask possibility You apply futures that never were and yet might still be. You are drifting further and further away. Are you proof I call to you across the din of the sea. Are you evidence of creation? I'm evidence of your creation. You tell me I'm real because you imagine me. I'm here because you see me. I exist because you need me to. You point to something that shimmers just under the water. That sea seeps into my boots as I take the small stone out of the silt with my finger pinkish and pale, it seems to glow when I look for you again, you're almost gone. Made of mist and air. Perhaps instead of searching for what is not there, your voice is almost one with the wind. Now you should notice. What if I walk back alone at home? I tip my red pebbles under the table. No, no opening in. But I put them together in a box anyway, just like you did. A little disappointed. I put on my string of carnelian beads. They were cool and comforting against my skin. They say that chameleons represent courage, endurance, motivation and creativity. 

Sam 39:23
You are all. 

Rowan 39:25
These things and more I follow in your wake. 

Sam 39:29
Lovely. 

Sassy 39:30
So yeah, that was very really. Beautiful and really gorgeous. It was so vivid I could feel like I was that way. Yeah, it. 

Sam 39:38
Was. You just taken us to the beach? Yeah. Yeah. 

Rowan 39:41
I told you I was a big soppy. 

Sam 39:43
Yeah. 

Sassy 39:44
And I think I would have loved you. 

Sam 39:46
Yeah. So imagine, 100 years from now, they open up a museum forever in common. What would be one of the objects from. From your life that you would like to see behind the glass? 

Rowan 40:00
So I. I knew you can ask me this question, and I have thought about it lots. I'm a very kind of eclectic person. I have many weird interests. And if that if some museum of my life in it would be about a thousand books about the Brontes. But also, I love octopuses, I love art, I paint, I love jewellery, I love obscure history, ghost stories and witches. All these things you will find in the pages of the. 

Sam 40:30
Story. 

Rowan 40:31
One way or another. And I thought about it and I thought, I sense some of the things that are in this museum. Like whenever I look at the the stocking that's been donned in the hill, I'm always like, Oh God, if, you know, if ever one of my pair of tatty left, I'd be mortified. But so I think I can't think of a single object. I've tried and I think actually what we have from the collection in the museum in front of Parsonage Museum is, is a sort of single attitude that tells us a lot about who the Brontes as living, breathing people. And so I think I'd put all of my if I put all of my things that I collect and cherish together, my rocks, my many octopuses, the art that I buy, the art that I make, the books that I've written, the books I collect, I think I'd, I'd hope you'd get an impression of somebody who was curious and interested and loved beauty and understood what it takes to have the resilience to be creative and hope over expectation. 

Sam 41:41
Yeah, the. 

Sassy 41:41
Story of you comes out in that way. That's what museums do with all the kind of jazz sources telling that story. And I think you're rife with all those little bits of you. We'd be able to get that curious essence. 

Sam 41:54
Lovely. Also, you mentioned that you're a fan of octopuses, and we have to mention you have an amazing tattoo on your arm. It's beautiful. Thank you. 

Rowan 42:02
Thank you. It's by Katrina in Brighton. She's amazing. A tattooist. 

Sassy 42:06
Shout out. Katrina. Katrina! 

Fantastic. Thank you so much, Rowan, for joining us today. It's been an absolute pleasure to have you on. 

Rowan 42:15
Oh, it's been absolutely my pleasure. And any excuse to come and sit in the library in the front table. 

Sassy 42:20
Is good, isn't it? 

Sam 42:22
It doesn't mind me. 

Sassy 42:22
I'm like, this is pretty cool. 

I have a lovely rest of your day. 

Rowan 42:28
Thank you. Thank you. 

Sam 42:30
So what do you think the Brontes would of made of that episode? 

Sassy 42:32
I think, and in particular, Anne would have loved it. I always feel like my spirit was in the room with us. 

Sam 42:37
Yeah. 

Sassy 42:38
And especially when the clock went off, Rowan was talking about her and Rohan's creative response was so beautiful, I think, and would have liked it. Maybe Charlotte would have been like, Excuse me, can you tell me more? 

It is interesting the fact that not all the Brontes are in one place, but I also think that really captures. 

Sam 42:56
Ah yeah, I definitely think it reflects her story. Does. Yeah. 

Sassy 43:00
And she says she's seen as an outcast Sometimes people don't remember her. There's so much, much with Charlotte and Emily on like T-shirts and stuff like that. And writing very different to them. Yeah. And people seem to forget about her. But I think what Rowan and it proved today is just how important she is as well. And I do not forget. And Bronte, I know she said, we need to respond. What was Charlotte Bronte day? Yeah. And another one's like, Don't forget, I'm Bronte. 

Sam 43:28
Hey, don't forget Anne Bronte. And everything that she brought to the table as well. 

Sassy 43:34
Yeah. Exactly. Well, that was a great episode. Thanks,everyone , for listening. 

Sam 43:38
Thank you. 

Sassy 43:38
We are open from Wednesday, Sunday ten five. So please come to the Bronte Parsonage Museum and Pebble Collection is on show in the exhibition. Oh, so please give us a liking to subscribe so you can get our podcast wherever you listen to them. Apple, Spotify. Follow us on Instagram at Bronte Parsonage Museum. You'll be able to kind of see some of the images of the pebbles and images of today as well. And thanks so much for listening, guys. And we'll see you. 

Sam 44:05
See you soon.