S1 E2: With... Lizzy Newman

Sam and Sassy chat to Visitor Experience Assistant Lizzy Newman.  We'll discuss death, doc martens, and what it was like living in Haworth in the Victorian Era.

Transcript

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Sassy 0:00
I went to the cinema yesterday, and I saw the new Evil Dead film. Have you have watched any of that. 

Sam 0:07
I have watched the first one. 

Sassy 0:08
They're good, right? And they're really horrible. And the man. The opening scene is the main character reading Wuthering Heights. Yeah. And then she reads, like, quotes off it as if it's the quote from, like, the creepy necromancer book. Oh, wow. And then, like, the evil spirit takes over her front. 

Sam 0:27
That's in the new one. 

Sassy 0:27
Yeah. Oh, wow. It was really cool to. 

Sam 0:29
See the Brontes still influence. 

Sassy 0:31
They appear parents. Yeah. Also, the cover of the book that she was reading I've never seen before. 

Sam 0:37
Do you think it was well made for the film or. 

Sassy 0:39
Yeah, maybe if anyone out there knows, because it was a really cool cover. It does exist. Yeah. It was, like, really ornate and kind of. It was a really vintage lettering, and I've just never. I've just not seen that cover of Wuthering Heights before. 

Sam 0:52
I'm going to have to go and see that now. Just for for the Wuthering Heights. Yeah. 

Sassy 0:55
Just for the little snippet. Yeah. But it is creepy. And it reminds me of, like, how there's actually a lot of horror films at the minute that are referencing the Brontes. I watched another one called Barbarian, and there's a copy of Jane Eyre on the table, and it's about like this woman who comes to like an Airbnb and actually there's like, this creepy woman that's trapped in the basement. Yeah. You can get the Bronte vibes from. 

Sam 1:19
Yeah, well, I think they. I think the Brontes could easily have written horror books if they were around today. They probably love horror films because there's always something in those books which is really creepy. Yeah. 

Sassy 1:30
Yeah, totally. Oh, my gosh. If they were around today, do you think they'd be writing, like, horror screenplays? 

Sam 1:36
Definitely. 

Sassy 1:36
It'd be like the it was his name, the Blumhouse they'd be doing. I Oh, the Blumhouse film. 

Sam 1:41
They would. even I was been reading the lot and though just there's a few bits in that where you just think, oh what was going through your head Charlotte. Yeah it's, it's great though. Yeah it's great. Just don't read it at night. 

Sassy 1:51
No, Exactly. We're? Digressing. Hi, everyone. Welcome to Behind the Glass, a Parsonage podcast. This is a podcast where we get up close and personal with an object and our fascinating museum collection, from writing desk to sofas, pianos to spoons. We welcome a new guest each week to bring a Bronte object to life through conversation, art and creative writing. We are hosting staff from the Bronte Parsonage Museum and we're here to chat all things, books, babes and Brontes with new contemporary artists from across the UK. 

Sam 2:35
So, which Bronte are you feeling like today? 

Sassy 2:37
Oh, I don't know, really. Maybe I'm feeling a bit like. Maybe I'm feeling a bit like Emily, you know? So start off the week. Leave me alone. Let me get all of my stuff. And actually, I went for a really nice walk in a reservoir yesterday, so I was feeling pretty in touch with nature. living in Yorkshire. One of the most lovely things is being able to like go out to all these beautiful places and they're so varied. And so we walked along a reservoir that was like in a woods and there was beautiful bluebells in the woods and it was just gorgeous. So and I'm feeling like Emily And they fell. They slipped away. Well, what about you? Sam which Bronte are you feeling like

Sam 3:18
Well, I just got back from holiday, so I'm feeling quite refreshed at the moment. I'm ready to go, so I don't know. Charlotte may be. Yeah. I think Charlotte's always ready to, start something new and she's ready to go, so I'm going to say so I always want to be Emily, but I don't think I'm cool enough to ever be. 

Sassy 3:35
Ever. I always think I'm always like, Oh, yeah, Actually, I probably think I'm more like. Charlotte. Yeah, yeah. My day to day. Yeah. And where did you go on holiday? 

Sam 3:43
Just to Wales. So it was nice to have a, break and in nature and everything. So it just brings everything back to perspective

Sassy 3:51
Yeah, we all treated in the UK. I think we actually have the most lovely green spaces. I went to Wales at the start of the year and I was like, Wow, this is gorgeous. And we're actually not that far from north by northwest. Yeah. Yes, we're not that far at all. No. So yeah, we it. 

Sam 4:07
And of course Branwell went to North Wales. 

Sassy 4:09
We just can't escape the Brontes. 

Sam 4:12
Wherever you go the Brontes will have probably been there. Yeah. I think they just stayed in Haworth but they really didn't know they went everywhere. Well, that was one. 

Sassy 4:18
Where I, when I was in Conway and everyone was like, oh, you know, that's where Charlotte went on her honeymoon. All like, Leave me alone. Yeah. 

Sam 4:25
She follows. They're always everywhere. 

Sassy 4:27
But anyway, so here we got on the podcast today. 

Sam 4:30
So I'd say we've got Lizzie Newman, who is from the Bronte Parsonage Museum, just from the front of house team. 

Sassy 4:35
be able to kind of shed a light on what it's like working front of house and. Absolutely. We're looking forward to welcoming Lizzie. Yeah. 

I've got a letter. Well, actually, my past life we share. We do. Lizzie stole my coat. Did I? Look. I do think sometimes that people in the parsonage end up dressing quite similar. Hi, Lizzie. 

Lizzie 5:00
Sorry, I'm coughing. Hello. 

Sassy 5:03
Hello. Welcome to Behind the Glass. How are you? 

Lizzie 5:06
I'm really well, thank you. Thank you for having me. 

Sassy 5:08
No worries. Do you wanna introduce yourself? 

Lizzie 5:11
Sure. Hello, everyone. I am Lizzie, and I am a visitor experience assistant here at the parsonage. And I've also dabbled in the administration team as well. And then otherwise, I'm just about to finish a degree in certain performance with Enterprise at the University of Leeds. 

Sassy 5:29
Make up drama. 

Lizzie 5:30
Yeah. 

Sassy 5:31
Who do you want to tell us now actually about the project that you did for East, the workshops? Because that was really cool. Yeah. 

Lizzie 5:38
So I did kind of like a Wild Explorer expose Aryans, if you will, for children. So with the exhibition being all about the Brontes in the wild, I wanted to find a way to actually get children to engage in the collection, but also get them out into the wild. Yeah, and experience sort of the environment around the museum. So I created sort of these explorer backpacks with little activities in. So they'd go up on the moors or on and in Parsons Field and they'd learn about poetry and bird and wildlife and trees. And then did some workshops in the museum where kids created these fabulous miniature collage. 

Sassy 6:20
They were. Really fun. 

Lizzie 6:21
Yeah, I found myself sneezing for like the next three days after it was covered in moss. Erm, and then I also did an audio work I guess you would call it, and that was using Emily's nurture poetry. Set. 

Sassy 6:36
To. 

Lizzie 6:37
A scale I would call it a little bit of sort of classical music with some added sound effects to sort of really immerse the listener into the environment of how Earth and the Moors are anywhere in the world you are. You can have a listen to it. I'll plug it. It's on my YouTube. Please give it. Listen, we'd love it. 

Sassy 6:54
the backpacks have gone down so well. 

Sam 6:56
They were so popular and it was so nice to see as well the amount of children who here outside with the little magnifying glass, looking at everything. Yeah. So I think it was a real success up. 

Sassy 7:06
you talking about Emily in nature, but I wondered what Bronte you were feeling like today. 

Lizzie 7:11
Oof, I feel like Charlotte today. 

Sassy 7:15
Oh, right. Okay. 

Lizzie 7:16
I'm feeling very academic. 

Sassy 7:20
So I'm. 

Lizzie 7:20
Just about to finish my degree. Some deep in dissertation writing, and I'm really kind of, like, in that really narrowed mindset. 

Sassy 7:28
I've just. 

Lizzie 7:29
Writing. I'm really enjoying the process. So yeah, I feel like Charlotte was probably the one that enjoyed the writing process the more. 

Sassy 7:37
Yeah, I can see that. 

Lizzie 7:39
today I imagine like in a uni library with, like cute little glasses and little coffee and. 

Sassy 7:46
Stuff. 

Lizzie 7:47
Like dark academia style. 

Sam 7:49
don't you find when you're in that zone as well of writing essays that suddenly every text message and everything you send is really formal, like a formal language. Theref I cannot get. 

Sassy 7:59
Into that last night and my. 

Lizzie 8:01
Boyfriend was

Sassy 8:03
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Lizzie 8:05
I'm definitely. 

Sassy 8:06
Not like. That. I like that academic Charlotte

so, Lizzie, you have brought with you an object from our lovely collection today. I you. 

Lizzie 8:21
I have indeed. 

Sassy 8:22
And before we get into it, we like to bring the object alive. On this podcast of the seminar, we're going to talk you what it feels like, what it looks like, what it smells like without revealing the object. have a little thing at home if you can guess what it is. And then we'll have a big reveal this. Some might be quite difficult, 

well, for. Us, it's a like a green book with a blue spine. 

Sam 8:47
It's very tea stained looking paper, quite yellowed. 

Sassy 8:51
it's very official. 

Sam 8:53
scholar of statistics. 

Sassy 8:55
Yeah. It's very important. 

Sam 8:57
I think, again, we can really say a paper. 

Sassy 9:02
So this is a home, if you guessed that, like, well done. but, Lizzie, can you please reveal the little chosen object? So it's the Babbage report. The Babbage report? So with me. 

Lizzie 9:15
I am a little bit twisted and weird. So any time I'm in the museum and I'm trying to someone, you will find me talking about. 

Sassy 9:24
Dad. 

Lizzie 9:26
Illness. 

Sassy 9:27
This. 

Lizzie 9:28
Victorian death custom, the graveyard. I just find it absolutely fascinating. 

Sassy 9:35
Just come and visit when Lizzie's working so she'll have to wait a little time. 

Lizzie 9:40
I The reason I chose the Babbage report is because, yes, it kind of brings in that sort of dark. 

Sassy 9:45
Thing. 

Lizzie 9:45
About the properties, which I find really interesting in the life that was surrounding them, but also really brings to life the reality of what it was like to live in Haworth at the time. And I think when people imagine the Brontes, they think of this sort of mysterious lark, you know, like the Moors and the beautiful Heather and the wild. And it was very romantic when yeah, really the reality of the surroundings of them was really hard and it was not a pleasant place to live. And if you visit today, you know you won't think. 

Sassy 10:19
That. 

Lizzie 10:19
Poverty sanitation. Yeah. really high death rates were an issue. 

Sassy 10:24
Can you tell the listeners at home what the Bobbies report is, if anyone's not aware. 

Lizzie 10:29
Yeah, sure. So the Babbage report was commissioned heavily by Mr. Bronte. Really? He was a huge off the cuff, making sure that his parishioners were healthy and happy and, So, yeah, this this report was commissioned. Babbage was the chap essentially that came to Haworth from London to do a health report. It's kind of like a health inspection. And he'd go around the village and sort of assess. 

Sassy 10:54
The issues

Lizzie 10:55
Problems that the village had. And the report revealed quite a lot of issues. 

Sassy 11:00
Yeah. 

Lizzie 11:01
you know, the main issues were housing was about four families per household, which is crazy because the cottages were tiny, was a mill village. So it was a very popular place. there wasn't a lot of room for everyone. Sanitation, as I say, was a huge issue. And the main thing was and sorry listeners to get a little graphic here. But I mean it's not very nice. But the water supply would come from moors. Yeah, lovely moors, you know, a nice spring water and it trickle through the graveyards full of decomp causing bodies. Yeah. And straight into the drinking wells of the village. They didn't have a chance. Really. 

Sam 11:44
No, it's very horrible. Histories, isn't it? 

Sassy 11:46
Is. 

Sam 11:48
And I'm surprised they haven't jumped on this I think it's why with Haworth it's known as being this lovely village that you go away to. Yeah. It's very much a tourist destination,it's so interesting cos it's such a contrast isn't it. 

Lizzie 12:00
I think that's the thing that I want people to know about is that it wasn't a chocolate box village, it was a very rough way of living Although the. Brontes were quite lucky in a way. Yeah. 

Sassy 12:12
I. Think death definitely is almost haunts them, I mean with their experiences of their family members dying and Patrick outliving them. All. can see how that must have affected them in terms of their personal lives, but also their creative lives. Like I find when you read something like Shirley,people  sometimes say it's incoherence in its structure and it's quite chaotic and not as well put together as Jane Eyre. But she's writing Shirley after the deaths of all of her family, basically apart from Patrick. 

Sam 12:42
Do you feel that living conditions of Haworth affected them created play or do you think they saw it as an escapism? Oh. 

Lizzie 12:49
Now I would have said 100%. It influenced their writing, especially Emily is poetry so much of her poetry? Sort of, yeah. And there's literally a poem called Death. 

Sassy 13:01
I'm straight to the point. 

Lizzie 13:04
And you know, sometimes, you know, on a quiet day and you're looking out the window upstairs in one of the bedrooms, your view is the graveyard. every day you look out the window is a reminder, if you will, if. 

Sam 13:16
You're going to die. 

Lizzie 13:17
It's coming for. You. And especially because your dad is the one that's burying them. Yeah. Yeah. So you kind of being easy to escape from. But in a way, the writing was an escape, as you said. I think as well, not too I don't want to kind of put a downer. On. life that delayed it. It was all about death and your son dying because there was so much happiness and creativity in the house as well. 

Sassy 13:40
Yeah. 

Lizzie 13:40
That, yeah, that, that, that creativity probably sort of transformed them, especially when you look at like the angry and gone. Yeah, stories like that was completely transformative and took them away from sort of the reality of what was surrounding them. 

Sassy 13:55
Is really hard to imagine how it's like that now because of what it's like currently I was on Instagram reels the other day and it was like the top five most beautiful places to visit in the UK. And it was like, however, and honestly, I've never seen it so beautiful. And the way that this video was filmed, I thought, Oh my God, it is really lovely. And yeah, so thinking about what it was like then, it's almost like, have you ever been in any of those sort of Victorian street recreations in like museums, like you can literally see there's the toilet and there's where they're chopping meat for you to eat, you know what I mean. Yeah. and then they make it really sensory. So it was. Like, Oh God, oh yeah. Imagine. And that's not even how bad it would have been walking down those streets. 

Lizzie 14:41
Yeah, exactly. I went to the medical Fakery museum for the day and they have one like that and they even like pump smells into the the fake street. Which. Was horrible, but yeah. As you say it was the reality. 

Sassy 14:53
Yeah. 

Lizzie 14:53
What it was like. 

Sam 14:54
do wonder what Howarth probably smelt like. Oh yeah. They're really pretty horrendous. 

Sassy 14:59
I think the Bronte smelt. I think because. I don't know. Yeah. 

Sam 15:06
I don't know because I feel like if Charlotte went to London and saw these people, some of them might have been like recording it down but like, oh the smell that way just the but, but then, but then how Haworth was supposed to be as bad Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So

Sassy 15:22
Yeah. I can't imagine London actually smelling that good either. So I mean, they could have looked nice, maybe that grungy smell and it. 

Sam 15:30
May be. what for you were the things that really stood out as the most awful, all the things that made you go, oh my gosh, Why wasn't that seen to earlier? 

Sassy 15:38
Yeah, 

Lizzie 15:38
It's got to be the graveyard. Yeah. The condition of the graveyard was appalling, obviously, because of the high death threats. I'm sorry again, guys. People had to go somewhere. and the graveyard. If you've been to Haworth, you'll see it's not the biggest graveyard. Yeah, And the amount of bodies in that graveyard now is about 42 to 45000 people buried in that small graveyard. And it was literally sort of, seven bodies, high families being buried in the graveyard together. And the thing that he really picked up on is the fact. The bodies weren't decompose causing there was few issues because of that and that's what Babbage picked up on which really interested me. But a lot of the graves were flat. Yeah. So, you know, they might have a gravestone, not as sort of an upright sort of round gravestone as you imagine. It was a flat piece of slate, whatever it was. I don't know. sort of blocking any air from getting into the ground. And then he also picked up on the fact that there were no trees in the graveyard, which meant that there was no oxygen sort of going into the ground either. So these bodies were just kind of lain stagnant without as yeah, without any sort of oxygen, the ground to decay them. Again, sorry, it's awful, but and then as I said, when the water comes through, yea, it is just going through soup of soup. 

the thing about the Babbage report is that for a purpose, they actually encouraged change. use the graveyard as an example,they  stopped using the, you know, the flat gravestone. 

Sassy 17:15
Yeah. 

Lizzie 17:16
So if you go around that, you'll notice after a certain. Year. There are no longer any flat graves. Yeah, Yeah. Interesting. And then they planted some trees. Yeah. Yeah. And today graveyard. So good things kind of came out of it. 

Sassy 17:29
think this is a good place for full truth, since a lie. 

So you. We've reached the point where I got full truths and a lie up my sleeve. And you guys have to decide which one is the lie. So I'm going to tell you five facts about the Babbage report, and it's up to you to figure it out. Okay? Okay. Number one. There were 222 signatures on the Babbage report to Number two, how it was described as being very smelly and grim. Number three, there were 11 water pumps and two of those didn't work. Number four, it took six years for everything to change from when the report was released. So it was released in 1850 and it was only in 1856 when things started to change in HOWARTH And number five, over a ten year period, there were 

1344 burials in that graveyard. Majority of them done by Patrick. home. Oof! 

Sam 18:36
They're all I feel like they could all be true. 

Lizzie 18:38
It could all be true. 

Sam 18:39
Oh, okay. I think it might be the pumps. That might be the lie. I know that the Brontes, I think, had their own world. 

Lizzie 18:48
Yeah, they did. I definitely think that how was described was described as. Smelling grim and you know, I think I said it. Yeah. Elizabeth Gaskell said something like, Oh, so grim. 

Sassy 19:02
It's that way again for that the pumps. 

Lizzie 19:04
I would have to agree with you. I think there was only, oh, let's just say about five. 

Sassy 19:08
well well, 

you're incorrect. There were 11 water pumps and two are not working. is interesting because it's probably the quality of the water I think the thing you would think about was how many privies to how many houses where slaves were. There was one privy to every 4.5 houses in Haworth all the time. The lie that was it wasn't described as being very smelly and grim. Oh, no, you can see it. They said it was very hilly and bleak. Think. Oh, equally not as great opinion. Bleak, other parts of the Babbage report that I pulled out I thought were really interesting. The even though that there was one per every two every 4.5 houses that was on average there are actually 24 houses in Main Street that only had one privy between them. so imagine a giant toilet with 24 houses as not even participants in that. they were 44 houses without back premises. So like, without a garden of their own, every house they would throw the refuse onto the open channel in the street. 44 houses doing that. there's loads of facts in that Babbage report that are really quite shocking and damning. And you can see why he came here and this has to change. But the thing that shocks me the most is that it took six years for the changes to happen. 

Sam 20:26
It sounded like there was a lot of, There was a lot of resistance between the wealthier owners, I think in Howarth and Patrick was the one who really person he kept pushing and maybe that was also spurred on because of his children dying. Yeah, because obviously it overlapped. Because I think when Babbage first came, Charlotte was alive, but the other children were dead. 

Sassy 20:44
Yeah. 1850. Yeah. 

Sam 20:46
by the time started actually making a difference. Charlotte had died by that point, so maybe that's what spurred Patrick on as well. 

Sassy 20:52
it's really interesting thinking about the Brontes as a family. So obviously the sisters are amazing and iconic, but Patrick Bronte not only outlived them all, but also had such an important role in changing what life was like and how

Sam 21:05
I remember reading. Apparently there was a wall at the bottom of Main Street and the water apparently was green. 

Sassy 21:12
Ooh. 

Sam 21:13
To the point where even if they let, like, cattle drink it, they would turn away. They didn't really. And yet that was some people's water supply. 

Sassy 21:22
That. 

Lizzie 21:23
Is that. Well that was not in use obviously, but it's still there isn't it. 

Sam 21:27
Oh it's at the bottom. Oh. 

Lizzie 21:28
And it's got like a. Signpost of, of it. 

Sassy 21:32
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Sam 21:33
never even put those there. 

Lizzie 21:35
I just, I have just mad, I. 

Sam 21:37
Just thought I was a decoration. 

Sassy 21:38
I probably take a selfie with the murky water. Wow. Like. Yeah, this is where even she didn't want to do. 

Sam 21:45
But catch cholera. 

Sassy 21:47
Yeah. know, that iconic picture of Patrick he's got. Like his neck scarf on. So I read a really interesting thing, which was that a lot of people in the time believed in the miasma theory germs and diseases and things like that were carried in the air, was disproved. And actually a lot of these diseases once airborne, but they were carried in the water supply. But one of the reasons that Patrick and quite a lot of different people in Haworth have these like big necks things is that they could then put them over their nose and mouth when they were like walking around. I think it's called like a little scarf or a muffler for his lower face and neck they thought that this would protect them against like the diseases in health while they were walking around Main Street. 

Lizzie 22:24
I got the theory. 

Sassy 22:25
Yeah, I get it. just reflecting on like COVID and stuff. Yeah, it's like early. Yeah, yeah. They were ahead of the game guys at. This time. 

Sam 22:36
But it is, it's funny because I think with, the lockdowns and COVID, because we haven't had anything like that for a long time It makes you realise the world that they were living in, that they wouldn't go to certain places because there would be an outbreak of cholera. Will there be an outbreak of whatever was going around at that point? Yeah. you kind of forget that would have just constantly been in their head. What if ever they were travelling somewhere, 

Sassy 22:55
And. 

Lizzie 22:55
How lucky we are. And times have changed and medicine has progressed, so we have that awareness now. How frustrating must be to see people around you just dying? Yeah. 

Sassy 23:07
And not. 

Lizzie 23:07
Understanding why. 

Sassy 23:08
Yeah, it must have been really frustrating Lizzie have you, like, had any interesting interactions with visitors to talk about, like the Babbage report or Viva found out anything interesting about like what it was like living in Haworth, or have you ever talked to someone that lives in Haworth now and compared them? Yeah. 

Lizzie 23:25
Yeah. I mean, Haworth is my stomping ground, really, it's where I like to spend a lot of my time, and it's where I go out to the pub quite a lot. But to compare it to then, what's really cool is you can go to the church, that Patrick Bronte was erm, the cure all and they give you guided towels, free guided towels around the church and of the graveyard at night. And it's a really great experience because kind of takes the Bronte out of it a little bit and just kind of explains what it was really like to be in house at the time. Yeah, know the really great book I've read, which is actually in front of me, is the Brontes Haworth Okay. Um, and at the back it actually has some really interesting information about the graveyard and a little bit like I've had quite a few people as well come to the museum and say, Oh, I've got ancestors that are buried in the graveyard and how can I find out information about them? And I find that really interesting because it really like humanizes it. It's easy for me to sit here and make silly jokes about, you know, dead soup. Well, it was real. Yeah. To have people to come in and say, oh, you know, my great, great, great uncle is in there all Yeah, it really kind of Oh where these. 

Sam 24:40
Were to life. 

Lizzie 24:41
Yeah. And they had families and they were part of Haworth and that mystery of the Brontes kind of sort of. Blurs. The reality of what it was like. Yeah. Play. It was actually. Just. A very real normal player. 

Sassy 24:55
I can't imagine. It's 1854. And then Bobby's report was out and everyone's aware of how horrific this place is, but nothing's been done. And also people are dying to know that, the Bronte sisters lived, everyone wrote these amazing books. How do you think that fell? Really not good. 

Lizzie 25:09
I think there there being a frustration there you know, not to diss the practice? Do I have to be a famous writer to have safe drinking water? So my family say if think that's like a basic human right, amazing people like Patrick Bronte to really push for something like the Bobby report. But it takes so long for things to happen and to see more people suffer around you must've been really hard. And then there's people showing up on your doorstep like, Oh, did Charlotte Bronte. Buy a. Sausage from here? And it's like Yeah, I don't know. 

Sassy 25:45
The answer's always yes. So Charlotte Bronte did buy and she did. And you can have this sausage for £50. Yeah, yeah, I roll it up, so I. Charlotte Bronte brought her sausage rolls. Yeah. 

Sam 25:57
So how does this object linked to your own life or has it made you appreciate your life? 

Sassy 26:04
Yeah. 

Lizzie 26:04
I feel like it's really interesting that you brought COVID because these kind of statistics were sort of available then and like you put on the news and they'd be that, you know, the the chart. Yeah, the wiggly lines and this amount of people have got it. This smart people have sadly died. the Babbage report kind of brought that back up a little bit for me. Yeah, But it's also really interesting and I think this is quite rare to have a documentation. Some sort of statistic, an analysis of what it was like. And it wasn't just sort of eyewitness accounts. It's plausible data that we can look back at and really see the reality of what it was like. I think a lot of what we know about sort of history is taken from of accounts of people's experiences. Yeah. So you look at like diary papers and letters. And so I've learned through that way what is so amazing to have that rapport, to have that clear cut what it was like. Yeah. Um. And we've been able to use that to really paint a picture. Yeah, of. the lives of people in power then if of the Brontes as well. 

Sassy 27:09
If you think the Brontes were alive for covert, do you think they would have attached their masks to their bonnets. Yeah. Oh yeah. 

Lizzie 27:19
Can you imagine if you had like You could have had like an extra, like, pull downs kept going. It comes down to all of you, so you'd look like you were like a beekeeper. Yeah. 

Sassy 27:29
I think we would have made it fashionable. 

Lizzie 27:31
Yeah. That a made it. Were. 

Sassy 27:32
Because some people had really nice masks that had like little decorations and stuff. Yeah. And bonnets are. Cool. 

Sam 27:39
I wanted to bring the bonnet back. 

Lizzie 27:41
Here and. Not to wear bonnet. I'm so sad that it's not, like, socially acceptable to wander around. In the bonnet. I feel like. We should get a uniform here. 

Sam 27:49
I mean, when did the bonnet go out? Was that just a time and. 

Sassy 27:52
Just people. 

Sam 27:53
Just. Just like, Oh, this does not look when it's this. 

Lizzie 27:56
Last year. 

Sassy 27:57
Maybe when the Brontes died. They were like, Oh, not cool anymore. Yeah. I guess the closest thing nowadays is like a fascinator. I like. You went to like, a fancy wedding. 

Lizzie 28:06
Like a nice. Yeah. Or like a nice brimmed hat with, like, some flowers on the inside. 

Sassy 28:11
I've not been to a wedding since I was, like, six years old, so I'm really waiting for the chance. I can go somewhere on it. Yeah. 

Lizzie 28:17
You'll have to. Go for. Bronte. Like regalia. 

Sassy 28:20
I wouldn't be buying it. I'm just going to go straight to our costume cupboard. Babe. Yeah, I'll turn. Up, literally looking like I've walked off the set of the ring. Hi. People will be like, Wow, These are still the show. 

Sam 28:32
Notes of Back to the Past. And yes. 

Lizzie 28:34
I got a signal right. 

Sassy 28:42
it's time for one of our favorite parts of the part, the creative interpretation. So each week we ask our guests to respond to the object that they've chosen through some artistic form. Now, Lizzy, this is your 5 minutes you've got here. It's your chance to read us your creative interpretation, and you can tell us anything that you want to tell us about it, how you were inspired, why you wrote it, what it says about you, what aren't you like, what you do for your creative in spirit and light practice so you've got your own time and space now. Okay to do that. Okay. Thank you. 

Lizzie 29:17
January 18th, 1849. It's a cold evening as I'm writing this snowstorm today. The kids are in bed and the hearth is not cinders. The little one has been lethargic of late. But doctor says it's just a cold and she'll improve as the months go on. My oldest is ten next week and will join his father down the Mellons Danbury. Today we saw Reverend Bronte after visiting on the Potters next door. That poor family, too, gone in a week. He says it's going to help with the water in the village. Josh says it won't do what that more needs to be done and the housing, that's the issue. I pray to God will, we'll be safe. This morning. I felt a cold coming on today. We had beef and boiled potatoes, which warmed me through as a tree. I made stewed apples. Alice was chuffed. I hope that this year will be good and we stairwell. Only time will tell. But my eyes are becoming heavy and the candle is nearly out. So I will end this entry here. Elizabeth So my idea was I'm a lady in the village. I have a family. I'm normal Amish. And I'm just going about my day. And it was a very common custom. I mean, it's interesting to think about because if in a normal woman, if you sit in the village, might not have had a great education, whether she would have been able to write in a certain way. And that's why I kind of write with not the best grammar, because she might not have had that kind of higher education. but yeah, it was really common practice for Victorian people to write diary entries and it was very kind of this happened. I had, you know, I had to look at a few examples of people that wrote diary entries, including on and Emily actually wrote diary entries kind of to each other and they would kind of right today's Monday. Today I had potatoes I'm going to do this someone died. The end and it was very, very. Sort of as it was but also quite reflective. They did a lot of reflective writing about how they felt, which I think is really nice. And I think something like that just kind of puts into perspective of just a normal person's life. And that could have been any woman in the village, youngest not well, eldest going down the, you know, the mills at age ten. But then you've got Mr. Bronte making these calls on people in the village, and what kind money probably was. I think a lot of people think that it was quite harsh. And, you know, I know Gaskell sort of described him as. What, did she say something She was. He was quite a hard man. 

Sassy 32:03
Although. 

Sam 32:04
I think she said he was quite it was not snobbish, but it was something like that, wasn't it. Yeah. It wasn't very complimentary, you. 

Lizzie 32:10
Know, which I don't think was true at all. And for someone to have the heart to do a job like that must be so difficult. And especially for his own children to suffer the same. Yeah, must have been really hard. But then they also reflected our law on nice things and they talked about, Oh, I had this for dinner and I did this, and I hope everything will be all right. Only time will tell. kind of the ending of that is from Anne's diary paper and they did a lot of reflecting on next five years, where are we going to be so Emily will be 30 editor I wonder what we'll be doing. Only time will tell. Yeah, I think that's really sweet, but also so sad because it kind of leaves that. time is not a guarantee. Yeah. I just wanted to of like humanize what it was like. 

Sam 32:56
Wow so, good. 

Lizzie 32:58
Thanks. 

Sam 32:59
was a really good response because it you don't really ever get to hear from that part of society because lot of their belongings, just once they were thrown away they probably did would have kept diary pages like that, but it was just destroyed. Yeah. And so we don't hear it, but we're very fortunate that we've got the Brontes and that there are those few that do exist, but they usually are people who had a better life in a way, or better they're in a better situation. Well, they were famous. Yeah. So but yeah, so it's so interesting because it does make you think about what those people were going through seeing it from a different perspective. Yeah, really fascinating. 

Sassy 33:35
And then I wanted to whether you wanted to touch on like you as an, as a creative and know. 

Lizzie 33:39
Yeah, I think for me it's, as a woman a lot of my practice and what I'm interested in is women's history and what it was like for women to live in these times. So when I did the audio work for Emily's poetry, I really wanted to show what it was like for a woman, right? Her experience in life in Yorkshire. I wanted to shine a light on how women struggled and their role as mothers and the heartbreak that they must have felt, especially, you know, the statistic was it for 54%? 

Sassy 34:09
Well, I think it's 41%. 

Lizzie 34:11
Yeah. I didn't survive till. 

Sassy 34:12
Six years old. 

Lizzie 34:13
Yeah, how awful that must have been. So, yeah, for me, creative practice. I want to really shine a light on women's history and I just enjoy sort of embracing my northern roots as well. That's lovely. it's really important to get in touch with that. And I'm from here, like, this is my home. And the women that came before me would have lived here too. And I just really wanted to explore that and really horn into my sort of northern roots. 

Sam 34:38
Have you done your family history

Lizzie 34:40
My granddad has, I mean, you don't really get more northern. 

Sam 34:43
Yeah, 

Lizzie 34:46
well it's just a line of northern access I think we're actually all from round here in this school in there as well. Okay girls kind of still kind of able their accents very slightly different so they say Yeah so I would say more but my grandma says Moa. 

Sassy 35:02
Moa. 

Lizzie 35:03
Moa. I find that really interesting. So yeah, yeah. Just to get in touch with my heritage and, why it would have been like as a woman in Haworth in the Victorian period. 

Sassy 35:13
And that's so lovely. Thank you. 

Sam 35:15
So Lizzie, imagine in a hundred years time museum opens in dedication to you. Oh, what collection item would be the object that represents you signing behind the glass? Oh. 

Lizzie 35:28
Oh, I such an interesting question. Does this. Does it need to be something that I currently have or hope that one day I have? 

Sam 35:37
I mean, reali, it would probably be something if this happened to anyone, it would be something that we would all be massively embarrassed about. Yes, I often think about it, and she's probably being mortified that they're stockings on. Yeah. 

Sassy 35:50
Exactly. Yeah. I guess it's just something that you think symbolizes shame. Yeah. 

Lizzie 35:53
It probably has to be my doc. Martin's

Sassy 35:56
lovely. 

Sam 35:56
Oh, they are amazing. 

Lizzie 35:58
I got quite a few compliments in the museum. 

Sassy 36:00
You do a. 

Sam 36:01
Lot. I've been on the front door with you and you're always getting compliments. 

Sassy 36:04
Well, the listener at home want your domain, so. 

Lizzie 36:07
I mean, we should be sponsored. If you're listening to this, please sponsor the museum. We all had minds. So they're like, normal. Sort of like Doc Martins. But then they've got, like, embroidered suns and stars and moons and fabulous things on them. And I, as you can tell, I am a little bit sort of into alternative things and sort of really like dark horrible history, history, if you will. I am. So yeah, I feel like these Doc Martins really represent me as a person. 

Sassy 36:33
And like. 

Sam 36:33
Emily Bronte. 

Sassy 36:34
They are. They like, you've got time, they've got tarot cards on your shoes is what I've always see when I think of them. 

Lizzie 36:39
Yeah, that's exactly what it is. And I want them tattooed all over me as well. think for me, like, I express myself through jewellery and tattoos and clothes and things. So yeah, I think Maddocks would be good, a good choice. 

Sassy 36:51
Pretty end. thank you so much Lizzie. It's been really fantastic chatting to you thank you. The Babbage report is really interesting and it's so good to like deep dive on those sort of issues around how is that connected to the Brontes? But give us a different insight into their lives. 

Lizzie 37:04
Yeah, I hope I have not creeped you all up to that. 

Sassy 37:07
Sorry. I think it's good to create the listeners. 

Lizzie 37:09
Yeah. And if you come to the parsonage, please find me and we'll talk about. 

Sassy 37:13
Yes, fine. Lizzie. She's got a cool Doc Martens on. Yeah, Yeah. Thanks, Lizzie. Thanks, guys. Yeah, I. Oh, that was so nice having Lizzie on, wasn't I? 

Sam 37:24
It definitely was. 

Sassy 37:25
Thank you, Lizzie, for taking some time out of your day. it was really cool to look at the Babbage report, just shows the variety of objects that we've got in our collection, I think. 

Sam 37:33
Definitely. And I think we just need to shout out for what a cool name Babbage is as well

Sassy 37:37
I do think of cabbage, whenever I did, Babbage. 

Sam 37:40
Was his full name. 

Sassy 37:40
Is that

Sam 37:41
Benjamin Herschel Babbage. 

Sassy 37:42
What a nice little name. Yeah. 

Sam 37:45
So what do you think the Brontes would have thought of that episode? 

Sassy 37:48
You know, well, I think they would have felt quite seen the myth of the Brontes is these brilliant, iconic female writers. But actually, this is what they were living in. They were living in a place where there was loads of public health issues and it would have been quite challenging they might have not liked me asking if we thought that they were smelly and 

particularly Charlotte. I but she probably maybe she felt even self-conscious about what she smelled like. Yeah. Maybe they need to release a Bronte perfume. 

Sam 38:18
Or could be controversial. 

Sassy 38:21
Bronte could have a different smell. 

Sam 38:22
They could have. 

Sassy 38:24
Yeah. And then awful enough that Carfax. Yeah. We get the whole house smell. Yeah. 

Sam 38:32
And sausage rolls. 

Sassy 38:35
thank you so much, everyone, for listening today. We really appreciate it. Please like and subscribe our podcast. You can get us on wherever you get your podcasts, Spotify, Apple Music we really love to see you at the museum as well. L Lizzie said, if you want to come around and pick our brains about the Babbage or come down to the museum, we're open Wednesday to Sunday, ten till five. thank you very much, everyone. 

Sam 38:56
See you soon. Hi.